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 Technique - How To ?

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Kaluani
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PostSubject: Technique - How To ?   Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:24 pm

Hi !

Although I am no pro-Player, I gathered some facts around my class (Technique) and since we all want our wrestlers to be the best, I thought i'd try and share some of those.
Nothing here has to be completly right and you probably want to do things different anyhow, but maybe some of the tricks may help you.

I will add information over the time, since I have not enough time to say everything right now.

But let's begin with the basics. i bet most of the technique are asking themselves:

Why the heck are there two bonusses and what do I need them for?
Well, obviously, there are "Submission Bonus" and "Submission Damage Increaser", both get a boost from our "Mastery". But you can still decide to focus on "Ruthless Grasp" or "Power Grappling".
Well, to exactly determine what those are for, here is the mechanics a submission move works:

A submission move has three parts (and only three maximum):

First part:
Kaluani grabs his opponent's head and arms
to make his body weave unnaturally with a light Eastern Stretch!!

Second Part:
Kaluani keeps his ruthless submission hold

Third part:
Kaluani keeps his agonizing submission hold

The first hit of the move is determined by the strength of the move and your direct damage increaser. I.e., if the first hit of the move is "light", "Strong", "powerful" or whatever has nothing to do with our tech stuff. Also, if the move hits or not has nothing to do with our tech stuff - this is determined via Attack Bonus.
So for this first part of the move, we only need stats we get from the strength tree. Everything is just like a normal move - damage is taken from enemy's HP, etc.

But then again, we come to the second and third part of the move, and this is where our submission stuff comes into play. If you make a "weak", "ruthless", "excruciating" or "agonizing" or whatsoever move is determined by your damage and your Submission Damage increaser.
It is not clearly stated how those second parts make damage. Most say they make damage to the enemies stamina (which seems to be right), but in a different amount then it should (obviously, if your moves hit for 100 Damage and a normal opponent has around 400 stamina - this can't be right).
Then again, what is submission bonus for? It has two functions: First, it determines how long your hold is ... well, held. Those "XY quickly escapes the hold" are tested against your sub bonus. Second, the height of your sub bonus determines how likely it is that your opponent taps out. This, in regard, happens only when he is low on stam/HP, because the enemies Damage Resistance is taken into account here and that only wears off later in a match.

So in short:
Submission Damage: Increase Chance of injury, increase damage in the second and third part of a sub move.
Submission Bonus: Increase chance of holding the hold, increase chance of opponent tapping out.

How comes you injure and what does it do?
Well, Injury is a mystery even to most Technique Players, the only ones who truly know are probably the designers of the game. I for myself go with the opinion that Injury is determined via your sub damage increaser and the damage of the move, in regards to the enemies left stamina and Damage Reducer.
It is not officially, but probably injury works as bleeding does: As long you're injured, you lose additional stamina for making each and every move.

What kind of submission finisher should I use?
Not an easy question here. As you know, finisher get more and more expensive as you invest in some stats. I for myself have two going and work very well with them. One finisher is with high damage, but low sub bonus. It often makes the enemy injured and helps bringing the match on - still, it lacks the damage of a DD-Move, so it is only used later in the game.
Myother finisher has a low amount of damage (2-4) and a great sub bonus. It is also set for later parts of the game, and the moment I use it is usually the moment the match ends, very often the opponent taps out then.
What you want to take is totally up to you. I can only tell if you look at the top sub-finishers in the "charts" section, the first three have low damage, so they should have a very high sub bonus, but there are also moves with a high damage in the charts, so both should work fine.


Where to invest my time and attributes?
Well, a good question and nothing simple to answer anyhow! If you think about skilling your attributes, there are three things you have to think about:

1) You have to think about your (future) move setup.
2) You have to have something to win your match
3) You have to have enough power to stand a match, even a longer one


This sounds easy and you can do things very differently here, but the more options you get, the harder it gets. First of all, if you thought about something, stick to it - don't change things too often.

Well, but let's start with the three points and take my opinion.

1) Move setup. I think this is the most important thing in the game. Your moves should have a conecpt - just don't buy every move, and do not take everything the same time. If you start, go and have a look at the New Moves Table and think what moves you want to reach. This often helps in what you might want to skill, and have a look what moves are availible. If you only have moves that bring your opponent to "Groggy", you won't use your maybe very strong "Bent Down" Moves very often. I know this is very hard and tricky right in the beginning, but you should think and consider it alongtime you level up, because in the endgame, nothing works if your move-setup is complete crap.

2) Winning. Sure, for a tech it's easy: Everything that has to do with submission should be our winning team. We won't go for pinning and we won't go for making the opponent bleed, so we injure them and let them tap out. So you should always put a little focus on keeping your sub-bonus and sub-damage high and getting some moves that take advantage of this. The best submission bonus is useless if you still only use fist lock and have fifteen non-submission moves in the same position.
But here comes another trick: Most tech players invest lot of points in their submission damage, forgetting that the enemy isn't likely to tap out when he is still in green! So you should also invest some points into normal moves and damage from normal moves. Oh, and surely not forget to raise Attack Bonus!

3) Survivability. A hard point, often underestimated from most techs. If you concentrate on damage, tahts fine, but you have to have the power to stand a longer match ! It is very important to raise your HP to a good, normal amount, but, and that is very important, always invest LOTS of points into your stamina! Submission holds not only damage the opponents stamina, as all moves do, it also uses up your stamina, and since it has three ticks, it does it three times.
So, invest into "lightness" (Speed) to reduce this cost and invest some points into the advanced ability "increased Resistance". "Tireless" (Toughness) is also a possible way to increase stamina, but it does not give that many points (around 2-6, depending on level) and there are other points in the resistance tree you need (damage resistance and HP). The best point is to raise stamina with advanced abilities.
A good traget number for around level 9-10 is 400 stamina, and you will see that this is hard to get!


Some starting numbers to begin with:
Your attack bonus (Strength Tree) should reach a number from 10-15 in the beginning for your moves to hit.
You should gain some speed levels and reach a stamina reducer around 15-20.
Investing in Resistance should give you Damage Decreaser and HP.
Investing in Tech should give you Mastery, Ruthless Grasp and some Power Graplling and Block.

The rest you need to skill is determined by your move set (which needs some abilities).- Keep in mind that your technique not only levels faster, it also provides you with additional skill points, so it should always be your best attribute.

What should my favorite moves look like?
A big question. Should you use submission moves, should you use damage moves? I cannot tell you the answer. All i know is that trademarks/Favorites are the strongest moves you get throughout the game and you should try not to change them often. Start early with a move in Groggy / Bent Down / Grounded and gather points. Then have a look for what moves you want to have as trademarks in the new moves section (link is above) and work to get them, then set them as your trademarks and enjoy them.
I for myself go with two submission moves and one damage move, but this has one great flaw: You are limited to the use of maximum 3 trademarks per match, and if your great submission trademarks go off early, then they won't do any good, that's why damage moves are always useful - damage is a good thing in each part of the game Smile
For a tech, i qould suppose to have at least one really strong grounded sub move as trademark (such as Figure 4, Sharpshooter or Ankle lock). Alhotugh it might cost you some trouble to gain the move and it might go off at the wrong time, it may also be the decision in lots of matches. As for what you do with the rest of your moves, I don't have any great suggestion.
Some use only sub moves (Bent Down: Octopus Hold, Groggy: Full/Half Nelson), others use high damage moves (Olympic Slam, Twist of Fate), even more others try to use high bleeding bonus moves (Fisherman DDT, Inverted DDT, Diving Headbutt) to use the advantage of both bleeding and injuries. It's up to you.



More to come !


Last edited by Kaluani on Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: technique   Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:12 am

thanks for that kal iam a teqnique wrestler in the hardcore version
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:34 am

No problem, although I still want to add a few things Smile
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PostSubject: wtf?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:16 pm

(-_-) damn... it's completely opposite what i do scratch ok I gotta invest some time into move set... study
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:51 pm

Hehe, don't worry too much, there are several ways of building a good tech, so yours does not have to be wrong.

I added some information about trademarks. Are there any special questions around the Technique I might add ?
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PostSubject: hmmm   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:02 pm

well i deleted few of my old moves and i tried to fight and for now i have 100% victories... ummm so should i only leave strong moves or leave few weak with wounding possibilities?
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:11 pm

man you are tech forget about moves with chance to make people bleed and of course don't trow it away only because it have it Smile
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PostSubject: ummm   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:16 pm

but i love to make people bleed...
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:25 pm

well to use those moves good you need good bleeding bonus and good direct damage increaser, you won't make people bleed if you hit light damage and moves with wounding possibilities often have low attack bonus that mean others can dodge it easy of course i am not tech so i can't say what moves you have
but i think Kaluani will agree with me
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PostSubject: ....   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:29 pm

so you want to say that my opponents will never bleed Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:40 pm

Depends on move and how you used your points. But if you want to go for bleeding, you should play a strength Wink

I agree with Theram, bleeding is nothing a tech should really specalize in. You need a certain amount of damage and a good bleeding bonus to make the opponent bleed, and mostly, we do not have that high damage increaser to reach the relevant damage. I have seen some builds specalized in bleeding, but they focus on the relevant trademarks and use high bleedingbonus Moves from the start for that. Usually, you should try and focus on injuries.

And yes, obviously, you should try and kick weak moves by the time you get stronger ones Smile
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PostSubject: umm   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:44 pm

right what about those sub lvl champ guys... once i tried to win a title and champ was like -25 but his stamina was only blue when he beat me up...
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:59 pm

If you look at a wrestler, you don't get the Advanced Abilites calculated! so, if he had -for example- three ranks in Increased Resistance, he had the 35 stamina more then you could see.

Also, mabye he had a far higher lightness then you, so he'd use less stam.
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Thu Aug 21, 2008 9:18 pm

Sooo, i added all the data i thought intersting, if you want to know any more, just let me know !

I have a special bonus for all interested Tech wrestler in their best ages...

I made a small Excel-Document with all the final-tech-moves (like Ankle Lock, Sharpshooter, Twist of Fate, etc.). Just insert your stats in the respective fields (block in Block, etc) and it will show up a "0" if you don't have the move, and it will show a "1" if you get the move.

This doesn't really help if you only insert your stats, but you can experiment with adding some values and gaining new moves with that - and maybe you can find out how to invest your next skillpoints ! Smile

TWG-Technique-roster

Maybe I will add some more moves in the future (there's still some of the lower moves missing, like Mandible Claw or Northern Lights Suplex or Fisherman DDT)
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:47 pm

@ Rolie

first, it's important to have nice move set, and that means that you combine your strong moves to hit one after other. Like if you have move which make your opponent to bent down and you have another move on bent down position which is strong then it's good way.
so your move set don't neccessary need to be wrong. it's all how you combine them. You can also everytime disable/enable moves you don't want to use anymore.
Another thing you maybe need to know... lot of moves in positions make more exp (more stars) less moves makes less exp, but it can lead you to match wining. So it's up to you how you want to develop your wrestler.
Many losses is not neccessary wrong way, nor many winning good way in the end, couse if you gain lot of exp from one match you can have buy AT (advanced techniques) more often and make your wrestler stronger in long run. Also it can lead you to lost many matches. So it's just up to you, and what you plan in long run.

about bleeding... don't be based on bleeding moves (i don't use them at all personaly), couse youre not class for that, and it will only lead you to wrong direction. If you want to make someone bleed, forget about bleeding moves in Tech class, just make 1-2 finishers with very high dmg (but don't set up high bleeding bonus, i use 1 as bleeding bonus) and after you hit him with high dmg finisher, he will bleed. Ofcourse for that you need nice amount of adrenaline.

about sub matches champ title... just make sure you make lot of dmg before you try to sub your opponent couse sub moves take lot of your stamina (like Kaluani said 3 times more), couse if you try him to tap out and you fail many times you will lost your stamina even if he don't hit you even 1 time. After you have lost stamina you have lost match. So i like, 2 strong finishers with high dmg, and maybe 1 strong sub finisher with high sub bonus, which i would put to be executed when i want (depends how much stamina i have and how strong it is), or have 1-2 strong trademarks with high sub bonus.
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PostSubject: Re: Technique - How To ?   Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:55 am

Since the forum - breakdown seems to killed to the post, here I go again:

I learned a lot about submission moves in the Wiki:

Submission Guide-Wiki


There are a lot of things I didn't know yet and they come from a high-level tech, so I suppose he's more right then I am !
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